As we mentioned in the recent post explaining the new Dungeon System, disenchanting will work a little differently in all 5 player and raid dungeons when patch 3.3 is released. We have seen a consistent pattern where players eventually need very few items from dungeons and they result to disenchanting as much of the loot as possible since those materials that can be obtained continue to have a lot of worth.
When the new Dungeon System is launched, the default user interface will give players the option to automatically disenchant items that they obtain in 5 player and raid dungeons. This option will avoid the hassle of having items picked up by an enchanter first to redistributed later and overall will make the process much smoother.
Also, with the inclusion of cross-realm-instancing in the dungeon system, there will be restrictions on trading items similar to the restrictions that are currently active in Battlegrounds. If the Dungeon System is used to complete a group for a dungeon then non-temporary items will not be able to be traded in the instance. This makes it so items like enchanting materials will not be able to be traded in the dungeon and using the new user interface option will be the only way to distribute disenchants. There will be some exceptions to this restriction though as Bind-on-Pickup items will continue to be trade-able to those present for the kill for a short duration and completely pre-formed groups that don’t use the Dungeon System to form the group will still allow trades.
To maintain the importance of the profession itself, the disenchanting UI option will only be available for groups that have a character with the necessary level of Enchanting to disenchant the items that are obtained.
We are very excited about the upcoming improvements in the new Dungeon System and don’t forget to check out the full preview here for all the details: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p3/newdungeonsystem.xml
(Source)
Don’t get all the moaning about how expensive crafting is to level up. If you start early (ie. lvl 1-10) your skill will just progress naturally. For enchanting it’s DE’ing quest rewards and drops, skinning it’s skinng mobs you kill and mining/herbing you better track and go that little bit out of your way to pick up every node you see. As for the rest it only gets expensive if you don’t have the right counterpart proffesion, ie. JC without mining is going to be expensive, as is alchemy or inscription without herbing. Most of these ppl who moan probably ignored their proffesions till 80 and then cba to go back to starter zones to farm mats and just started wasting their gold on the AH…well I pity you, but gratz on getting to 80 a few hours quicker…now you can enjoy spending days farming gold for your neglected proffessions!
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People would need greens in PUG heroics? I haven’t once seen that happen. In every raid I’ve been in, guild ran and PUG, the greens always got passed over. Even hard up enchanters would rather go straight for the better gear than waste time to have everyone roll on them.
The way prices are now on my server it’s more profitable to just vendor most blues than it is to DE them and auction the shard. The coming heroics will probably do the same for abyss crystals. Farming boring old toc for them is bad enough, but 3 new ones you can farm on regular mode will surely drive prices down. I’d be complaining more about that than me not having to dig through bags and separate my mats from what someone else rolled for.
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Everytime I get in a group with my chanter there are always 3 others wanting the same greens, and if lucky a blue or epic item no one needs.. It’s very frustrating to see 2 or 3 other chanters argueing over the same items so FTW.. I leave my chanter in limbo and when I need the mats i get on my LW, BS, or my Tailor and make what I need .. Argueing is for babies and grandmothers…
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@ Rhanoo
If you would read the original post it says that the automatic disenchanting is an OPTION players can chose to use. Which means that there is a choice in implementing the system per group! It doesn’t say that if there is an enchanter in the group it automatically turns on! So please if your gonna call my answer lacking make sure you have your information straight.
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As an enchanted, dont really care, saves me having to DE crap then have rolls for it lol, and THEN give it out,
Hot debate. What do you think?
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My group will usually set the loot rules to rare that way only blues/epics get rolled on. If greens drop they go to the person who gets to loot that kill. If a DE is in the group and would like those greens they can either ask for them, trade for them, or “vendor” them from the winner. What I was hoping for with this change was a choice to DE items with or without an enchanter in the group so that bop items can be DE’d rather than vendored. Or maybe Blizz should change it so that you can put a bop item in the not to be traded window allowing it to be DE and then you get the mats sorta like when a rogue unlocks a box.
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can’t edit previous post to include this note but…
If you want a cut of my enchanting mats, then give me a cut of your gems/ores/leathers. Stuff I can’t get from my proffesion, cause i’ll need them to get that other bloke to make my epic ToC patterns for me.
Thanks.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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@ D
D, there’s a slight flaw to your arguement. Greens are a no purpose vendor drop. Hence why we enchanters keep the mats. Our basic DE general policy is we DE the blues which ONLY give shards of some type. Blues and Epics don’t give dusts/essences. Everyone greeds on Greens, but only Enchanters Greed on blues to DE them. This is why we keep the dusts and essences. If you want a cut of that, then ask your enchanter nicely and maybe they’ll find it in their heart to do it. Hell, I’ve been known to do it, but if you accuse me of stealing it because I de’ed an item you would have otherwise vendor looted and turned it into enchanting mats for my later use, then ofcourse you’re going to get this arguement. Enchanters follow a simple policy which I’ll post here so as to alleviate some of the bickering and prodding.
Rules for DE:
1) DE’s will greed only on UN-NEEDED blues/epics to de (note, blues/epics only give shards/crystals)
2) Everyone rolls on greens whether to vendor or de. Hell, you win it i’ll de it if you ask me too.
3) Shards are rolled for at the end of the raid/dungeon. if you don’t stick around to roll, you lose out.
4) Don’t complain that I didn’t give you something because I rolled and got a higher roll than you knocking you out of the running for a shard/crystal. I need mats too.
If there’s any further picking after this post, I can’t do much more to clarify.
But yea, D it’s understandable as to both sides of the arguement, but you need to get the facts and agendas fixed and straightened out.
I still disagree with this system being used on greens. (especially since you can get an enchanter to break an abyss into essence and dusts for you if you ask. most people forget we can do this.)
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I don’t think anybody is saying you are stealing by winning a greed roll, I think what people are saying is that whenever there is an enchanter in a group, and someone asks “Do we have a DE?”, if the enchanter says yes, then he should be rolling same as everybody else. If something gets DE’d, there is no reason why we should be rolling on shards only, and let the enchanter keep the rest. That effectively kills the usefulness of a roll. If you lost the roll, you lost it, it’s that simple, you don’t get to keep anything. Otherwise the enchanter essentially makes a cut on EVERYTHING that drops, which is unfair to the rest of the group. Unless you have a previous arrangement with the group of course.
So what this patch will do is fix this so that you as an enchanter will have to roll same as everybody else.
If you want my humble opinion, disenchanting should be a gathering profession of its own. You cannot cut the cake and eat it too. You do realize how much profit you can make as an enchanter selling loaded Vellums on AH right? I made a ton of money in the past, before I switched to JC for the gem bonuses.
Also leveling Enchanting is only expensive if you start it as a 80 and can’t be bothered to go through the normal dungeon progression to DE appropriate-level items. As a 80 (even for clothies) it’s pretty easy to solo DM or RFK, and you get to keep all greens and blues for DE.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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@ Darid
“The issue is that enchanters are STEALING greens from PuGs they are with during raids or instances. Its understandable that enchanters need to raise their profession but it is not fair that for that reason they can STEAL greens that an entire group collects.”
So now I’m stealing your greens because I rolled greed on them and won? And I just happen to ignore informing you that I’m an enchanter when you could just as easily notice this by checking armory or wow-heroes or another such site?
Your ignorance is not my problem. I need materials to enchant MY GEAR, my friends gear, and be a beneficial part to my guild by having an enchanting cache that can be used as new gear is acquired, whereas you are simply going to continue whinning because you couldn’t be damned to level this profession yourself? Learn to play or GTFO honestly… this is why the game has such a horrible reputation. People whinning “The enchanter took mah greenz and didn’t tell me he was an enchanter!”
Maybe the bloke needed em and could actually use em. I’m not gonna tell you I skin or herb, so why should I tell you I can de? It’s no benefit to me to give you something I have to work for. And not my fault you have suck rolls.
Thanks for your time, and if you enjoy my putting down trolls with an iron fist, please feel free to + this post
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I believe its unfair to allow everyone the ability to benefit from my enchanting for free. If u want to be able to disenchant then pick up enchanting, i had too … in fact i had to give up another profession to do it. Why is it fair that I used one of my TWO professions to have the ability to de but the other guy doesn’t. I can give a rip less if you need mats too you got your other TWO professions u made your decision live with it. I know everyone needs enchants for there gear, but u know what else they need, they need eternal belt buckles, armor kits, gems. it kinda makes everyone needed a little bit. If you decided that you wanted mining and blacksmithing then you already get 2 benefits … stam increase and extra gem slots. If you choose to have two professions other then enchanting then you deserve to pay a tip or buy the mats off AH cause that’s the sacrifice you make to gain the benefits of your other two professions. The enchanter had to give something up, why should anyone else be any different… could it be greed or is everything just about you!
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As an unguilded enchanter, I can say that the issue of DEing items in dungeons has gotten to be a problem, especially since 3.2 made heroics commonplace again.
The problem is this: I still need 50 dream shards to finish buying my non-raid patterns. Think about that. I’ve been going for months (and probably raiding too much compared to grinding heroics) yet I am still without basic purchase-able patterns.
Why is that? It’s because everyone EXPECTS to either roll greed or get to roll for shards on every single drop. PUGs rarely follow directions to need/pass so that I can greed all for DEs. However, what I find the most aggravating is that nobody EVER agrees when I say “hey guys, still trying to buy patterns. any way I can get dibs on a couple shards?”. The stock response is “no, I will eventually need this for my own enchants” or “go buy them off the AH, I need money”.
Frankly, I’m sick of it. If I needed on an item claiming that I need the DE mats to learn patterns for my profession (which I do), I’d be blacklisted as a ninja after a handful of runs. I’ve actually refused to DE for some groups, because they we’re adamant that an enchanter had no more right to enchanting mats than anyone else…yet they wanted me to convert their 5g vendor item into a shard that they could AH for ten times that amount!!
Great, now we have a mechanic that doesn’t even allow me that choice. FFS.
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“Everyone needs enchanting mats, no matter which profession they have”
And everyone needs ores, leather, or cloth bolts, but we don’t get to roll on those things (well, we get cloth but not the bolts). My Titansteel Spellblade was 1100g when I bought it. Sure could have mitigated some of that cost if I’d been able to roll on miner ores when I was in groups.
But that wouldn’t be fair to miners, just like stealing my enchanting materials isn’t fair to me. I don’t have a problem creating crystals or shards for people in groups – at least good groups and decent people – because they’re somewhat rare and if they show up on the AH instead of being used for an enchant now and then, it doesn’t really change prices all that much. But this change effects dusts and essences as well, which is the lifeblood of enchanting income. 10 green drops in a 5 man group = 2 green des on average right now. With this change, everyone is going to go de every time on trash, which is now TEN disenchants. That’s FIVE TIMES as many mats coming out of groups all of a sudden. There is virtually no way that won’t bring prices plummeting to Earth.
“Unless enchanters start to provide mats with enchants at a reasonable price, but I have never seen this. ”
Oh, B.S. The most expensive high-end enchants right now on BWR will cost you about 700g at average prices according to my rundown on the AH last night (which I did to prove this very same point on the WoW forums). That’s not far off the same cost as other high-end products like Ebonweave Robes (500g – 600g) and Titansteel weapons (actually, it was 40g LESS than the least expensive titansteel product). But, of course, enchanters have that double-standard: it’s sooooo unfair for us to charge equivalent rates for our high end products.
And, of course, most enchanters are more than happy to DE at least some of your trash for you to help you mitigate the materials cost. Try getting a blacksmith to give you some free titansteel bars and let me know how it goes for you.
“You think it more fair that JC’s cannot make money off prospecting, because any PvP twerp can buy epic gems for honor?”
No, I think it’s silly that they put the profession in then immediately pulled the rug out from under them. Which is why I think this change is just another in a long line of unjustifiably bizzarre things Blizzard has done that seem to serve little more purpose than to make the game less playable for certain subsets of people.
But, hey, whatever. Enjoy enchanting SERVICES in the hundreds of gold for Dalaran blue recipes – whether you have your own mats or not – when you’ve reduced the enchanting population to a few people who run high-end raids and have the rarest BoP recipes. If we can’t make money off materials, there’s no reason for semi-casual and casual players to pick enchanting because it will be nothing but a huge money and time sink (not quite the same enormous money sink it was for those of us already at 450 who REALLY get screwed by this because of the drop in mat prices, but it’s still not going to be cheap to level). Without the casuals playing, no more free enchants with your mats because we’re just playing for fun and don’t feel the need to gouge you. Can’t wait to see what people start charging for things like Blade Ward when only a few hardcore players still do enchanting.
WTS Blade Ward enchant – 1500g or your first born, your mats
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I agree with CJ.
As a max enchanter, this makes life easier in instances. Now I don’t have to remember to roll on shards, and search though my bags (a lot of random crap drops in dungeons. clutters stuff up xD) for the right blues to DE.
If people want to ninja, they’re just going to hafta be more creative about it.
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I don’t see why everyone is complaining about this? All these Enchanters complaining about this new system, which just makes it easier to DE for the group. When someone comes into a group, people are suppose to share resources and services to make life easier for the group.
When I go into a dungeon, I’ll pass people Potions or Mats for things if I think they could make better use of them. My friend leveled his Enchanting to max recently, and he just DE’s all the items no one needs and passes them out at the end of the, and if he really needs a certain mat, he buys it from the winner.
The only people that this would effect would be the people that want everything. If no one could use the item, why should the Enchanter be the only one who gets any of it. DEing the item is a betetr option then selling it to the vendor, but if the Enchanting was going to be a jerk about DEing it, then I would rather sell it to the vendor.
But, I’ve never encountered an Enchanter that wouldn’t glady DE for people.
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Well, as an enchanter, there are two ways to feel about this.
On one hand, it’s absolute crap that enchanters have to share their profits with non-Enchanters. The difference between selling a BOP blue and DEing it is usually about 10g. I did the work and spent the money to level Enchanting, yet you think that you deserve an equal share of the profit that’s obtained by DEing. I DE and share because the alternative is to simply greed everything (or, in the degenerate case, need everything), which doesn’t benefit anyone.
A proper solution would be as follows:
- Enchanter gets any items that would be vendored (if multiple enchanters, they roll for it).
- Roll to determine compensation
– If Enchanter wins, no compensation
– If someone else wins, Enchanter pays vendor price to the person who won
The net result of this is that non-Enchanter players get vendor prices for the BOP items that they would have won (same net result as everyone rolling greed), and Enchanters get to DE more items and keep the profits that they deserve from the investment they made.
The problem is, such a scheme is too complicated to be practical without a special UI.
ON THE OTHER HAND, the new UI makes it easier for items to be DEd, which means that more items WILL be DEd. That means that more mats will show up on the AH, which means that mats will be cheaper. This makes leveling Enchanting cheaper, which is ultimately a good thing. It also makes selling enchants more practical, since lower material prices result in a combination of increased demand and increased profit (how much of each occurs is dependent on market factors). Of course, if the cheaper-to-level Enchanting results in more producers, that could lower prices and cut into profit.
The bottom line is that I think the new UI is beneficial but not fair. But the current situation isn’t fair either. Enchanting is NOT the profession you want to get into if you want to make money, it never has been, and, as far as I’m concerned, it never will be.
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Wow. Enchanting is a profession. I have levelled it and paid great deals of money for mats i could have farmed im sure…i have all the recipes purchased with the shards i have won while grinding hundreds of heroics. Now I like to rooll straight greed on items instead of offering to de them because sometimes i just want the extra gold, or I want to de stuff at the end of the week. If I have enchanting in your group why is it automatic that I have offered my de services to you. I don’t know you nor do i really care about your mats collection so i roll on the items like everyone else and de what I win. Oh i can de yours too…for a tip.
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I’ve never had an enchanter be unwilling to DE my greens for me, free of charge (sometimes I tip, but it’s usually either denied or I get something for my money).
If you win a green, if you would have it disenchanted, it’s now streamlined so that the enchanter doesn’t even have to bother with the trades. I think that is a great thing for myself and my fellow chanters.
The only downside I can think of would be if you usually Ninja partial mats or if you charge for DE. I can’t think of a guild or group that wouldn’t kick you for just being a jerk, in either case.
So either A) you’re a jerk, now whining because you can no longer ninja mats or B) you prefer to charge for a small service (Considering there are times where we’ll take someone JUST because they have chanting, so we can DE, and you get 2-4 gold just for going from RLoot) which is highly beneficial to everyone, especially if you’re running in a mostly-guild pug.
In either case, if you’re bitching about the UI devs making your ASSUMED DUTY MORE STREAMLINED, then you sir, are quite the character.
Also, I leveled my enchanting from 1-450 via drops from leveling from 1-80 (Quest, dungeon, so on and so forth) and aside from training costs and the Shards I bought off the AH for buying recipes so I could be of better effect, and I could’ve gotten those from all the heroics I had to run in order to gear up for raiding.
I don’t understand why it bothers you. Other profs have wanted this, in different forms. If I could Auto-herb a kill that’s herb-able for someone who’s leveling in Zangarmarsh, I would be ecstatic.
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See here is the thing. With all other Craft professions the only person your competing with is those with your craft. Miners only have to compete against other miners for ore, skinners only have to compete against other skinners for leather, and herblists only have to compete with other herblists. Enchanters have to compete against everyone, not only that if they attempt to go “farm” their mats I can tell you this that not every 3 or 4 mobs drops a green or blue item. It takes me about 2 hours to farm up 5+ stacks of saronite ore and 1 stack or titanium ore plus some gems and eternals. In 2 hours farming for enchanting mats I might get 5 greens to DE. Enchanters have always been screwed. Heck now other than standing in Ogr shouting Enchanter LFW i have to rely on inscribers to sell my stuff on the AH. And yes it is stupid to allow PvPers to by gems with Honor.
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Everyone needs enchanting mats, no matter which profession they have. When I roll on an item and want it DE’s I need the Infinite Dust as much as I need the Cosmic Essence or shards. The enchanter’s reasoning is that they can spare the shards but keep the rest, and that is retarded. They did not win the roll.
Unless enchanters start to provide mats with enchants at a reasonable price, but I have never seen this. I make it a habit myself to tip about 10% of the mat’s value to the enchanter doing the enchant and that is perfectly reasonable.
You think it more fair that JC’s cannot make money off prospecting, because any PvP twerp can buy epic gems for honor?
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@ D
As an enchanter that spent the time grinding before they reduced costs on rods, I can safely say that you sir are a cheap bastard.
Enchanting costs a lot more to level than jewelcrafting, period. I’ve leveled both, and that is simply fact.
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“Hahaha now enchanters are pissed because they cannot cheat everyone out of their green mats. ”
I’d love to here you explain how the only profession that can actually USE the mats could ever possibly cheat anyone out of them. As a cloth-wearing tailor I can USE leather, should I be allowed to roll need on it every time a skinner in my group goes after a corpse in Nexus?
In fact, by that logic, the enchanters have been nothing but absolutely graceful from the very start of the game for not rolling need on every single uncommon or better item they come across.
“You make your money when you MAKE stuff. ”
That comment right there proves beyond any reasonable doubt that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Trying to make money off of enchanting is a surefire way to go really broke really fast.
But, hey, whatever. Make disenchanting a second profession then. It would still be unfair for you to be able to roll on their stuff.
Although, I’m about 98% certain you’re just trolling.
Doesn’t matter to me though. I made a few scrolls for myself and then sold all my remaining mats when I first heard about this and I’ve been selling all the new ones I get. I’ve racked up over 5000g from it so far, which is more than enough to fully level a profession that gets treated fairly. PLUS I’ll still be able to use the “Ninja the enchanter’s mats” button myself when it goes live to get my unfair share of the pie going forward.
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To maintain the importance of the profession itself, the disenchanting UI option will only be available for groups that have a character with the necessary level of Enchanting to disenchant the items that are obtained.
please try to read the whole thing before you post stupid crap
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Well I don’t think this option will be available if you don’t have an Enchanter in group tbh!
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I totally agree, I have an alt who is currently at 436 enchanting. If I was to just buy all of the mats to get to 450, it would easily exceed 1.5k gold for all the mats.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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this is rediculous.. are they going to make it so that everyone can skin creatures in dungeons as well.. or how about picking herbs in dungeons.. or minning as well.. if its going to be one gathering class, then it should be them all! Enchanters, unlike herbs, minning, and skinning spend alot of money to raise our craft, yet know half of it is going to be givin away for free!.. insane!
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