Every time you log in to WoW, you’re bound to get spammed with something like this: “LFM to <random instance here> Link [Epic] and Achievement, or ignore”
Me personally, i think that’s bullpoop. This days, gear is handed to you as soon as you ding 80. What i want to say, that gear does not mean skill. Perhaps in vanilla wow, but not now. It sure does help when your gear is great, it shows your dedication and some other stuff, but not the skill.
I’ve meet countless of clueless players with great gear. Also, i met tons of players, that were AWESOME, but due to RL, they don’t have time to farm raids for better gear, but non the less, they out perform better geared players in any way. So, me being EWUL as only Healers can be, refused to go ANYWHERE with the people that asked me for my gear lvl and achievement. (I own even naked, i’m that awesome! 
). Besides, i hate pugs, but that is not the topic here.
Anyway, i know that people who ask for achievements and [epic] have their own reasons, one of them being “better a noob with [epic] then a noob without it”. Whole point of this post is that skilled people don’t need “Über” or “Imba” gear to kill bosses. Hopefully, this post will make some people contemplate their game.
Originally written by Gevlon. You can check the original post by clicking HERE.
Ungeared
Have you heard the excuses that “I’m ungeared for 3K DPS” or “My guild is really nice and good but we are yet ungeared for Ulduar”? Or on the other hand have you seen the ridiculous requests “whisper [epic] for inv to 5-man”?
We at Windwalkers (BTW recruiting) thought this nonsense should end. 10 of us gathered blue gear. I mean not a single epic item, not even an ilvl200 crafted. We did not used epic gems or enchants needing Abyss crystal, nor Sons of Hodir exalted enchant. We used profession bonuses though as every raider should. I logged out in this gear, and also the MT of the run.
So we got 10 characters in gear that would not get us invites to any PuG. What did we do? This:
Combat log, part2. Video will come on Wednesday.
Raid setup (some logged out in blues, some in epics. We have fires to fight you know):
1 shaman (enhancement)
1 rogue (combat)
1 mage (fire)
2 priests (shadow, holy/disc)
1 warrior (prot)
1 paladin (holy)
and 3 of the OP class:
(tank, resto, moonkin)
As you can see it’s far from any synergic team. Practically those who wanted to come. Bring the skilled player, not the class.
IMO i think who ever came up with the Gear score system, came up with one of the worst things since(heaven forbid) DK tanks. My gearscore is 2190 for a ret pally, and while im “technicly” ready to do ulduar 25 or even ToC 10 people turn me down cus “zomg you use i200 gear” BIG WOOP!!! Thats like saying that nice shiny Ford GT is a bad car cus it gets horid gas mileage! I know of hunters, mages, locks, frack..every type of class, who are ready for IC 25 yet my dps eclipses theirs by 2-3k! And thats without me using food buffs or flasks half the time (not poor, just lazy)
I can understand asking for [achievement 10] to do [achievement 25], i mean its nice when people know how the fights work in theory, but come on…people have to learn and I for one do not do well by reading a fight…its not the same. LET ME GET ROASTED by Ony, or let me fail at DDR! Its how people learn, not by reading a website (no offence bosskillers) or watching a youfail.com vid (youtube as normaly people call it) set to heavy metal in which you can’t SEE the fight cus of the words they use to describe what you should do. Anyone else see a problem with this one?
As for all you guilds who don’t care, or take the under geared into raids i say more power too you and where can i sign up? I got a dk that needs Naxx.
Ok, no more soap box…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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P.S. btw, did anyone else notice, this post on a gear score checking website, lol the irony
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I am from a small guild, we like to run 25 man raids, but do not have enough people right now to run them with a guild only run. We have to pug the last 5-10 or so. Anyways, there is no way currently to check a players skill level, the only way that we can get any kind of reading at all on a player is through gear score and achievements. Unfortunately, it does not make a player better by having better scores or achievements. The only thing it allows us to do is filter out a lower geared player, that should not even be playing that content anyways, as someone stated earlier, for some reason peeps feel that they should be able to ding 80, run OS, live, and then go straight to ToC. Another problem is the ones that have worked from Heroics, to OS, Naxx etc. (proggression), don’t want to go backwards. What I mean by backwards is that they were there once, worked through all the wipes and learned the content, and have been in bad pugs, where there was no screening done at all, spent lots of gold on repairs, etc. Mixed in it all, you have actual skilled players that are raising alts. The best solution is to find a guild that is running the content that you need to be running and join it. Unfortunately guilds are not always on your level, and I don’t necessarily agree with guild hopping, but sometimes the guild you are in is not meeting your needs and you need to move on to one that is. Remember, this is a game, and you pay for it, you should be enjoying it. Oh, and until there is a way other than checking gear and achievements to check skill level, there will always be this issue. Good luck to everyone and see you on top of Arthas, when he is dead : )
P.S. grats to the group that took down yogg in blues, I can’t imagine that I would try this other than with players I know that are skilled enough to do it. I would like to see this photo with 9 pugs and each of you all in blues and see him downed, now that would be an achievement!
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Alright i have to add my 2 cents. i had been to ony once when it was lvl 60 my computer had a virus soon after uld came out i hadn’t played in awhile and the day i get back my gild needed another man for 10 ony so i went and according to gs i was under geard but i managed to stay alive the whole time and did around 3k dps. a week later i was invited to 25 ony and 25 uld raid with our partner guild again the gs said i was under geared my guild leader had to push to get me in in ony 25 we wiped the first time because people got hit by the tail and got slaughter by whelps. the second time the idiots did the same thing and got hit by the tail but somehow we managed to kill the whelps after they killed probably 15 people in the end i was left standing and i did more dps than some of the other more geared people and i stayed alive because i was smart and did what the fight demanded. in the uld fight i was #2 in dps at 4.3k on kologarn and the only person who beat me was some sort of caster in full 219+ gear and me only have 2 pieces of gear above 219 was only 200 dps behind them and i still didn’t die during the fight. i guess what im trying to say is gear only puts a cap on what you can do it cant teach you to dance on heigan or how to stay away from cleave or tail swipe on ony or how to kill the enraged add on emalon. it cant teach you how to make your rotation better or how to pay attention to your surroundings all it does is see how much damage you can do before you start the first phase on the boss. gear score means nothing its just a fun way to compete with your guildies and tests how high your capabilities are on a dummy in your capital city.
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im a elemental shammy mostly running PvP gear and and 90% of the time i play better and do more DPS than the epic geared guys. many times ive been complemented by the other party members on my playing style.
never judge a book by its cover.
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I’m sure I will get a terrible rating but non the less I just want to say “I would rather have a skilled person with great gear than a skilled person with poor gear” which is why I look at gear. I also think it’s a bit odd to have someone link the achievement for the raid unless you clarify it as a badge run which my guild sometimes does for ToC 10 or something like that.
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The only reason people ask for high GS and achievements is so their poor skill / low dps can be covered up / carried. =P
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My take:
There’s lots of terrible players out there with [Epic] and also achievements for raid completions, particularly those that you can easily be carried through (such as 25 ToC now).
There’s a lot less terrible players that are wearing binds-on-acquire items from reasonably difficult bosses. So someone wearing a Mimiron drop is likely at least a decent player – someone wearing an Algalon drop is likely a stellar player.
Were I filling a ToGC25 run with a PUG to replace an absent guildy, I’d take someone with ilvl226-239 gear that has an item from Mimiron Firefighter and one from Algalon well, well before I took someone with ilvl245 BoE epics and Northrend Beasts 25 items coming out their ears.
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I totally fit into this situation. About 3 days after my latest priest hit 80, my guild took me into a ToC 25 run to heal since they were short and some of the regular raiders were late. With a smattering of various quest and dungeon greens and blues, I still managed to hit 5 of 7 on the effective healing done list. Granted, I was OOM when Jaraxxus (the fight I got brought in for) was at about 25%, but still, I kept my assignments alive as best I could, and we made it through with minimal deaths.
Currently, after getting some pretty decent gear upgrades through Ulduar 25 and ToC 25 and emblems (which is a long task by itself, mind you), I’m still way less geared than many of our other healers, and still consistently 3rd or 4th on effective healing (depending on how many resto druids we have) as a holy priest. Gear helps, but it’s not the be-all, end-all; you have to know your class. And gods know how many PUGs I’ve run that I absolutely LOATHE someone in the group because they’re retarded DPS or can’t stay out of the fire or whatever the case may be. Oh, and my toon still hasn’t stepped into Naxx, 10 or 25.
US Runetotem occasionally goes through phases about a week after a new patch where you must link achievements in order to get a run into said achievement, but it usually dies out after about a week or so. It’s frustrating, but knowing it’ll go away makes it easier to PUG it when your server isn’t stupid enough to think (permanently) that you’re automatically just given everything you need to clear something. E.g., we were attempting Thorim on a progression kill in Uld 25, and failed miserably several times, but it’s due to learning the fight, not so much because our gear sucks (we’re #20 or so on our server).
I have been taken into PUG kills on various toons, undergeared or not, because I know HOW to play my toons. Skill > Gear, imo, but the gear sure as hell doesn’t hurt.
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Myself, I just tanked Naxx10, Ony10, and VOA10 today with 25,500 unbuffed health, and it was all completely successful. Gear helps to some extent, but I just did a bunch of raids wearing half blues. This gear fixation has to stop, and quick.
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As usual, most of you guys are completely missing the point. I’m putting together a pug. I have NO IDEA what your skill level is. You could be the worlds greatest player and I’m never going to know. And people aren’t going to ask interview questions to 24 people wanting to pug to see how well someone knows the fight or their class.
Gear checks are potential checks. And IT IS true, a bad player in full T9 will be better than a bad player in blues. Come up with an easy, fast and accurate way to measure a player’s skill and oyu could probably make money
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There are addons that fake the acheivements and guilds that sell end content runs. GS is virtually meaningless, but half (or more) of every server is “leet” or “pro”- with their head jammed in their hind end. However, numbers are the best proof we have of performance so ppl will always rely on things like GS or Recount instead of saying “Hey don’t worry about it! It’s not my first wipe- just don’t do w/e you did wrong again”. Sure, I’m like everyone else- I just love being told by some unknown player rolling a different class exactly how I suck, why I suck and what I can do to not suck, but honestly I’d rather wipe on a Heroic I’ve cleared dozens of time with a group who doesn’t play the blame game and doesn’t give up than spend hours in trade “trolling” for a group that will take me. And lets not forget that no amount of skill or gear can overcome equipment failure or connectivity issues. (I recently turned off all of my addons because my framereat was so low- only 11fps versus the 22fps I get now lol)
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The one that gets me every time is when I tank heroics on my DK. He just recently hit 80, has 26kHP and is defense capped. I get invited to a group and get insta-booted for having ONLY 26kHP. WTF? Where the heck were these people at the beginning of Wrath?? “You can’t tank heroics with 26kHP.” Just because they’re so used to seeing 40kHP tanks carry their sad butts through ToC doesn’t mean nobody else can do the same.
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I was asked to heal for 5 man ToC when I was level 78. Nearly all of my gear at that point was tier 4. I went in, healed well, and we only had one death the entire run, and that was someone that went down faster than I can land a heal.
End result; Everyone from that group, and many others now, have me on their friends list, and I get offers for groups almost instantly most of the time that I come online. I have the achievements from all but 3 of the regular dungeons in WotLK and I only made it to level 80 early this morning.
My gear is still crap compared to what many of the people that ask me to come heal them used to demand from their healers. But they have now learned that gear is not everything.
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Recount – an officer’s perspective
The basic three elements of fighting are firepower, protection and mobility.
In raids, protection is handled mainly by the tank and the healer. Mobility is mainly an issue for spellcasters that cannot cast while moving, and thus short casting times are important: The shorter the casting time, the faster the caster can move, e.g. while kiting a boss or hiding from an AoE.
Firepower, as a concept, consists of several parameters:
• You must hit the target (hit rating and expertise)
• Fire output (spell- and attack power, haste rating)
• The ability to concentrate all firepower on a specific target (e.g. “everyone on skull”)
• Increasing the effect of your firepower (Spell- and armour penetration, debuffs on the target)
• The ability to fight for a long time (Ammunition: pools and regeneration of mana, runic power, rage and energy)
• Reducing the enemies’ firepower. (e.g. dampen magic, mind control, banish, pummel)
• Reducing the effect of the enemies’ firepower on you (resistances, shield wall, hiding behind a pillar, running out of harms way)
Tactics affect firepower:
• Initiative – having control over the fight (the ability to counter enemy moves)
• Choose the time and place for the fight (pulling a group to you instead of being overrun by a patrol)
• Fog of war (the ability to handle unpredicted situations)
• Surprise (sadly the mobs cannot be surprised, they are always ready to kill us)
All these things are important for the individual toon and a group of toons fighting together. Skill and gear will of course determine how successful the group is. However the success in battle depends also on the ability to work together as a team, i.e. that the group’s impact will be higher than the sum of the impact of individual toons.
While damage/healing-meter add-ons like Recount can be an invaluable tool to analyse certain parameters of a fight, it also poses certain risks. There are guilds that banished Recount from raiding ,since it made people compete for the top-spots, which is counter-productive for the team.
Please remember that Recount is statistics. Statistics is like a bikini – it is hiding the interesting parts. Statistics is like a lamppost – it is a good support, but only illuminates a limited area. There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.
We stand alone together
Currahee,
/Bjustice Warrior tank, Geeks United/QT
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As far as I’m concerned, with a couple of nicely equipped and competent healers, any team can beat any boss in any instance as long as they are high enough level to actually do damage. It doesn’t typically matter. Very few battles are time based (aka. a detrimental spell cast by the boss). I mean yea, better armor and resistances will save your healer lots of clicking. But whatever, I’m tired of being discriminated because I only have a 1988 gear score!
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First off let me say that this a very good dicussion. I am on Bronzebeard and I have only been playing since April of 09, I finally reached level 80 (woot!) with my hunter a few weeks ago and of course I am “undergeared”. I am proud to say that my guild (Knights of Northrend) has been quite helpfull in getting me started on the rode to being geared. I agree that there are to many PUG’s out there wanting to to know your GS and acheivments, and that is BS! Right now I can pull about 1.8k dps and I am always getting turned down for raids and even heroics and it is agrivating because I can play my hunter well and I would like to get the gear also. What I do now is just ignore the PUGs and try to find me a groupp that doesn’t really care about the gear. It is just frustrating sometimes because there are not that many out there anymore that think that you don’t need the gear to survive. If you want a geared person to run a raid then you need to help them get the gear, let them run with you anyway and then when you raelly need them they will be there.
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Funny to see an article such as this.
So anyway, my Protection Paladin is still in no way perfect, but I pulled my socks up over the past six weeks or so, in an attempt to circumvent the substantial drop in general casual Dungeon/Heroic running on my server (Kel’Thuzad, US) due to what seemed to be primarily Halloween. I rushed 80 and started from scratch so to speak.
http://www.stefcho.com/images/lolstrel.png – Was myself, mid-October.
This is all well and good, certainly. Pat myself on the back for escaping Green/Blue-town in terms of gear, but then it did ultimately come down to the fact I had achievements for absolutely diddly squat. My effort, Gold, and time were seemingly wasted.
Today I had a real boost in confidence mid-afternoon when I had a friend PMing me saying a group were desperate for an MT for a ToC-25 Anub’arak encounter. I was skeptical at first, until I was assured they would make it work.
We got Anub down to 37.4k in one attempt before the proverbial hit the fan, and I feel I performed adequately, even if I was, as people may have been thinking, ‘desperately undergeared’ for the encounter itself.
This new-found confidence then took me to stir some interest for a ToC-10 with some friends. Can’t say anyone of the group of four I knew (before inviting randoms) had a gearscore of more than 2-2.1k. It was an uphill battle, but I do a lot of reading and managed to prepare my friends for the fights ahead. Although it didn’t go quite as we planned, we eventually made it, with little under four minutes to go on downtime.
I consider this a positive result, and I did thank those who were more experienced for exhibiting such patience, and being helpful to those of us who’d never experienced the encounter hands-on.
Although I don’t agree with all of the attitudes exhibited here, it is great to see some division, and a little bit of heated discussion; keeps the blood flowing. ;P
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When the new ony 10/25 mans came out in 3.2, this scenario was the standard protocol “Link acheive”. CMON! Day one, are you serious! So yes, bravo on your point. If you know your toon, you will do well. Learn your toon, learn your rotation, and be raid aware. Besides, its not like the NR heroics are hard anymore. In some cases, my friends and I have been 3 or 4 man-ing them. With my frost dk, in mostly Ilvl 200 gear, I push 5-5.5k dps in most raids. I hang in there with people geared to the teeth. I think imba has been blown out of porportion, and its purpose of helping people fix problems with their spec/gear/chants has been overlooked and people think its just a score of how good you are, when in reality, some really geared jerk off can be part of an awesome guild, and get drug through 25 mans, win rolls, and get geared without any clue of wtf they are actually doing. Anyway, point made. Some great disscussion going on. Have a blessed day!
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Actually the epic achievement doesnt mean much anymore. you can easily get 75 emblems buy an item equip it and trade it back and do that for every item until you get the epic achievement
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Lot of good points.
One of them being peoples obsession with stats that far outweigh what is needed to do the task. A calm efficient run ends up winning the race. Like in quicksand, the more you panic and jones to get to the other side the quicker things go wrong, whereas if you stay calm, you can portage through to the other side, while the speed demon sinks and ghosts back from the GY 10 times.
I am a musician and one of the best things a teacher ever told me was, see if you can play it slow. If you can’t play it slow, then you can’t play it. I am not a huge fan of absolutes, but the point is clear.
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My guild is very small. I’m a survival hunter with a 2k gearscore. I am needing 1 trinket that’s epic then i have the epic achievment. I put myself in the que for a few raids and I got the wpisper “can you dps voa 25? then were gtg.” and i said sure. so i go in and we do a gear check. I was pretty sure we would so just fine. A mage then tells me im not ready for voa 25 and wantes me booted from the raid.
This is a pug by the way….
So they let me stay and the mage was all epic’d and geared for toc 25 on wow-heroes. I go in and we’re going for Archavon for the 1st boss… when we down him, i ended up at 7.7k for the boss…. the mage was only at 6.2k- gear does help dps but its not the end of the world if u dont have the epic achievment… still not sure if it was the gear or class that made the dps where it was.. gear helps dps but skill is better in my opinion…
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I will say though that the number of people queueing up for ToC10 and up with ungemmed and/or inappropriate gear is rediculous. I can’t remember the last 25-man Ony/VoA/… pug I went on that didn’t have at least 1 who was badly geared and under dps’d the warrior tank… It is true that there are many geared toons who don’t perform much better but the gaping socket holes just burns me up every time. It is plain inconsiderate.
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I’m in full agreement with Ragnaras. i am a DK tank. I have been told i am fairly skilled. but what gets me the most is when people ask me to tank and then right as i am pulling the boss they are already dpsing and not letting me get aggro. so the boss turns and starts to run rampant while i run after trying to get aggro back. so when we wipe who gets the blame the tank who couldnt keep aggro. heres a example, we were running 25man Onyxia and i was the main tank. well i got the go ahead from the raid leader to pull when ready. so i start my pull and have her just about turned around and i am backing to the wall, and everyone is dpsing and i am fighting to get and keep aggro but lose it and she starts killing everyone. well we get reamed in vent by our top dpser “mage” for being noobs and for me not keeping aggro. well he leaves. incidentally he was the one who pulled aggro off me in the first place and died first. so we get another who is less geared then he was. and then me and the raid lead tell everyone to wait till i get her to back wall. and low and behold after i get her there and then they start dpsing, no one pulled aggro from me. it is clearly in my eyes skill and knowing what and how to do it that makes a successful run. we ended up downing her with no probs. not everyone can be like the warrior with the way their taunt works. but if you have skilled players in your group they know that they have to let you get aggro before they start their attacks. that is what makes good and fun runs. having everyone skilled and knowing how to play not their gear or achievements.
Kallanar DK Lothar OZ NZ
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I started playing my hunter again after transfering him to my mains server. I hadnt played him sicne the pre-ulduar days and had only ran naxx ocne with him and was in all blues and greens ecept for one epic.I was kicked from a naxx pug for being “undergeared”. I eventualy got in after bitching at him about how i could have been egared enough for naxx before but somehow im not anymore. I eventualy got in and ended up being outdpsed by him by about 200dps. The thing is he died everyfight and I lived. mIn my opionion(and I’m sure msot of the people commenting here would aggrea) someone pulling 3k dps an entire koralon fight is better than someone pulling 5k dps only to die in the first fire.
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GS is more like a screening test than a determination if you will be good. Just like if you went a job and they ask if you have a diploma. A diploma doesn’t mean you are smart but i would rather have someone with one working for me.
For all those that havent notice, wow is progressive meaning you must master heroics and Naxx before moving on so dont get mad if you are declined for Ulduar when you have spent enough time getting the gear for lower instances and raids. Wearing all blues to Ulduar is just lazy when it takes not time to get full epics.
Most of the time when people are looking for geared runs for Nax it is just for badges and Off Spec. The reason why they ask you be geared and have achievement the runs is so we can make a 2.5 hr raid into 1.5 hr raid do to high dps and knowing the fights.
If gear doesnt take so long to get go get gear and stop whinning then you will not be declined for raids. Plus if you think is tough to get in now, wows new LFG system establishes a minimum item level for its high level heroic instances so you will not be able to do them until you spend time and get the gear.
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In all honesty, numbers DO mean everything. Gear score is one thing, recount is another. People ask for gear score way above what’s really required for some instance because they want a fast run. Also when I do ask for a certain gear score, I make sure the person isnt in all PvP gear. Or that they have their gear fully enchanted and gemmed. Why? Because that’s the mark of a good player. If you come to me all geared in ilvl 219′s with half your crap not enchanted or gemmed, you cannot expect me to believe you’re a good player.
Now as it is now, any just-80 player has the opportunity to be in at least 5-6 pieces of 226 gear just from running heroics. Why should I let anyone in on them fast pugs if they can’t even be bothered about running heroics? People want to go from OS to ToC in one shot, and that’s deplorable. There is an order to things, that’s why it’s called progression. If you want to get geared, get in a guild and have THEM gear you. Pugs are for late-week raiders who want to get things done.
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I will agree that upon dinging 80, gear is easy to get. All you have to do is have a group run you through countless heroics that drop conquest badges like candy. Once you have all the 226 gear, you can trade those badges in for 213 gear and even 200 gear if you really need it. Not only are there tons of pieces that can be bought with badges, but there are countless epics that can be purchased with the amount of gold in your pocket. Blizzard has made it infinitely easier to get “geared” the further into this expansion they go. Since a gearscore of 4000 is so easy to get, why does everyone sit there and harp on the subject? The statement, “LFM 10ToGC, 5k+GS only” is ridiculous. You are handed 4k and an extra 500-1000 is not difficult to get. You can’t judge a player based solely on Gearscore.
Achievements are another thing Blizzard likes to hand out like candy. I’ve been in groups where the mage and the fury warrior die within the first 3 seconds of the fight because they didn’t let the tank (me-Tankadin) get the taunt/hammer/consecrate off. We then proceeded to finish the fight and low and behold, when the achievements popped up in the chat window, the Mage and the Warrior were on the list. Now how is it that Blizzard would allow this to happen? You can be dead and still get the achievement for your group completing it. Achievements are as bad as gearscore in judging a player.
As it was said before, the only way to truly know someone is to run with them, because skilled players in greens and blues can out-play scrubs in 232 epics. However…when making a PUG, the only thing you can see about a player when asking in trade is their gearscore and their achievement history. How do you know if they’re a good player or not? You can’t take them through a heroic to test them when you’re looking for a group for 25 ToC. You have to go by what you know. Gearscore is supposed to be used and was designed as a tool, not an ultimatum. While I will admit that gear + achievements =/= good player, it’s the only way we have when looking for a PUG to judge them. When someone can come up with an addon that tracks your skill during the runs you do, I’ll be one of the first to download it. But until then, I will continue to ask the following, “LFxM 25 ToC. Need X and Y and Z. Plz pst with spec and highest raid achivement you have completed alive”
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Let’s go back to the Naxx reply up top…
I’ve been in a Naxx guild run (can’t remember the guild name, not my guild, sorry peoples!) where a large percentage were in Heirloom gear.
After one wipe the top dps (woot MAGE!) dropped from group citing ‘You’re all noobs, this is fail!’ after he/she was the first to die at Grand Widow Faerlina as he/she didn’t know how to hold back to allow the tank to build aggro (that was me, pally tank, we’re not the instant ‘look at me, look at me!’ like a warrior).
After a replacement was found, the run went awesome, one-shotting the rest of the way through Spider, Plague and Construct.
Gear don’t mean S#{t! (sorry to the people who may be offended by that statement) It’s what you do, who you’re working with, how you trust and work together as a team and being the one breathing at the end with a raid boss slumped in a puddle at your feet with you all cheering and posing for the photo.
And by the way, numbers mean nothing, so if you’re that worried about meters, download recount yourself and stop annoying other people.
Cheers all,
Ragnaras, The Valiant Accord, Steamwheedle Cartel.
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I was in a horrible pug for H ToC the other day in which I ended up getting kicked out because I wasn’t interrupting enough (due to being sheeped most of the time). Anyway, my warriors is specc’d fury and his GS is only 1970 but I’m working on it. Now, this was my first toon and I’ve been playing for about 3yrs. so I know how to play him. When I pst the druid tank that kicked me of course he was talking all kinds of crap especially when I told him that the pally healer that was in there was crap (druid and pally healer = same guild). He says to me that he was much better than I (worded it more pc for here). So I look him up and he has some 219 gear but he also had greens and everything in between. The druid was in full 232/245 gear, so it just goes to show that anybody can get carried through just about any instance/raid to get some gear but it doesn’t make them a good player. Especially now that people can get carried through all the heroics and get a ton of badges to get gear. IMHO, GS and achievements do not mean anything and I will usually try to run with anyone that wants to go geared or not because you cannot judge a book by the cover.
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Being a Lvl 80 Warrior Tank…I have run into the…your not geared enough BS for all that I can remember…. However, i got the chance to show My skill in a totc 10 run and tanked with little problems, with it even being my first run. When You get to 80 for the first time, it is so discouraging for new guys. However, I have found that showing up all these “Geared” players is the best feeling ever and will continue to do so.
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I’m a feral tank but I used to be DPS pre-bc, and if you pew pew’d before 2 sunders you got kicked from raids or negative dkp or screamed at on vent. How many times do you see people in dal LFM MC or something, they run in, don’t wait for the full raid to get there, no buffs, no heals, then OMG WE DIED ON MC!!!! QQ trade chat for the next 2 hours.
I have problems asking people to wait for threat, it doesn’t take anytime at all to generate it now, but people attack the target before you can even get your charge/taunt/growl/fairy fire off then the boss turns, eats the heals, raid wipes and it’s the tanks fault? We have so many more skills in WotLK like tricks of the trade, (multi-misdirection in 3.3) etc, and yet people still insist of having little e-peen DPS races. ZOMG I PULLED 5k, yeah but your dead now. I feel obligated as a tank to taunt off these scrubs it’s the same when your healing and see some idiot not drinking/eating after a fight or too lazy to run back demanding a res.
The link achievement is crap; it doesn’t mean anything if your just tagging on the back of well geared raids that is just face rolling the content. I can understand checking out gear on a player, because yes there are some that just want a free ride, but never judge a player before you see them play, if they are crap kindly ask them to leave, maybe offer some help on what they can do/gem/enchant/spec to get that dps higher instead of just “remove from group”.
So good work guys, you proved it’s not all about gear it’s about the players, and that’s how it should be.
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It’s so true to talk about how people are always thinking gear=skill and Ive gotten attitude from people who have such great gear but their specc is a total mess. Then they whisper me like damn u for outhealing them only be 50% lol. In this expansion people have really become more uptight I’ve noticed about achive and gear. Then again gear does limit how far our skill can take us but imagine if every geared player had amazing skill. WoW would be a better place!
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I agree whole heartedly with this. I am so sick of hearing ppl ask for geared people only to run. I mean seriously. Do they think that we are all given level 213+ gear upon dinging to 80???? Were they????
I hate this catch 22 situation where everyone wants to run with geared players but no one will run players in order to get the gear that they want to run with.
The Saurfang server is shocking for this kind of crap behaviour, so we’ve finally set up a guild for people who want to run in order to start gearing up. Not interested in what gear you have or don’t have, just interested in running. So if anyone’s on the Saurfang server, feel free to join the Purgatory guild.
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About time someone did this, haha
nicely done
Druids Ftw XD
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This is very true I totally agree and I have had alot of people in my guild(with less then ilvl 200)out dps a 226 geared and even 232 it’s all about the person playing
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I for one really do feel sorry for the peeps trying to progress in the game then hit a brick wall because some noob asks for [epic] or the raid achievement, my brother aint even lvl 80 yet (76 atm) and i’ve told him if someone is noob about achievement/epic slap em on ignore because its their lose not yours. yes thats right its thier lose plainly because they are lineing up peeps and a thin line at looking at whats VISIBLE for them to see instead of plainly giving a person a chance. heck i done naxxramas last year in GREENS and outdone someone who had done heroics for epics. achievements aint everything its the person playing and if they want the achievement they can go look elsewhere and sit in dalaran for 4hours asking for OP peeps to an “face” race instead of a person skill raid
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It’s the Naxx riddle. To be able to join naxx, you would have had to do Naxx before and have Naxx gear to do Naxx. So in essence, even the people who first cleared had no right to do Naxx, as they themselves were undergeared.
Bit of a dated example, but one that will forever stand out in my mind. Link [achievement] to do the raid, that gives the [achievement]. But people do make names for themselves on servers, that is a small % of people who deserve it, but hey..
What are we do to?
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/Cheer
I am happy to see someone take some initiative to debunk the myth that “Epic Gearz OMG” = Skill. I hate nothing more than getting in a PuG with a 28k mana pally healer only to die from no heals :/ I have been in pugs with 200 ilvl alts who out preform ilvl 245 geared peeps. It is all about the skill. As a tank I see it every day in so many ways. Gone are the days of “wait for 5 sunders before you start DPS” Now it’s open up with all you got and if you pull aggro and die blame the bad tank or bad healers. It is funny to note however that those same “leet” players are usually the same ones that you can finish the raid without.
Forever gone are the days of focus fire and actual raid leading. I guess I can either get use to “AOE Everything” or roll a warrior to 60 and run AQ40 all day. Good Job proving that this is still a skill based game. Happy Hunting!!
Kazzi
(Muradin)
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