As many of you have suspected, we think rogue damage is too high. We will be making hotfixes to lower the maximum damage output of Assassination and Combat rogues. The Combat nerf will be slight. Both specs should still do just fine on damage meters (assuming skill, gear etc.) but shouldn’t be beating out other specs to such a large degree.
Other things on our radar that you might see soon — none of these are promises and we have no specific changes to announce yet:
* Warlock damage in PvE is a little low.
* Protection warriors have too much utility and damage for PvP. (We don’t want to hurt their tanking in PvE of course.)
* We are considering adjusting (not replacing) the Elemental 4 piece Tier 10 set bonus.
* We’ll continue to refine and look at the Icecrown weapon procs.
* Other stuff (yes, we’ve heard your concerns), but these are the big things we are focusing on at this time.
Some of these changes, should we decide to pursue them, can be handled via hotfix and others will be made in an upcoming patch.
We usually don’t make such general announcements before we’re ready to share the specifics, so we’ll see how this works out.
(Source)
To Ancilorn
“As many of you have suspected, we think rogue damage is too high”.
What? did this vision come to you in a dream? like many other nerfs. Seriously folks Blizz must be feeling the heat of this dated game, you add all the new content you want its still the same grind it was in the beguinning.A few less retarded glitches yes, Notice how over the years the cycle goes full circle ie nerfs pvp, pve, abilities. Now we can purchase really cool things threw the blizz store, like the celestial mount but hard work and grinding wont garner you anything like that. Playing a game was suppose to be relaxing enjoyable and dedicated playing trying to achieve whatever your goal is, was worthwhile not anymore it seems. LOL now the rug gets ripped out from underneath us again, because of a solid thought while sitting on the toilet. Just keep a large stable of toons ready to let the current nerfed rest and play the op one of today,may salvage interest in the game for at least a few more years untill some new game grabs your attention.
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To Celebriaen, and Brutalsmerte/Stevenuuk’s responces.
Here is something I’ve been thinking, Give Rogues a Self Passive buff that grants 10% damage for the Raid. And, Yes keep Rogues the same because Nerfing Poison damage the last time forced Rogues to use Instant Poison and change out spec. Increase Poison damage for Raid enviroments. And to the PvP only gear I agree. And I think Rogues should have their own personal gear period. because no one else does what we do. And Poisoned weapons just a idea.
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So tired of this. I have been playing a rogue since I started, and it seems like every patch there’s people crying “Rogues are too OP they need to be nerfed!” To which I reply “You arena?” and usually get a “Yes” in return. /sigh
Now here’s an idea to make the crying pvp-ers happy. Separate skill sets for PvE and PvP. When you’re flagged, the PvP skill set is used, when you’re not, the PvE skill set is used. I know, I know, that’s too much work right? Well if a free mmo (guild wars) can do that, why can’t a multi-million-dollar-a-year MMO do it? That way PvP people can quit crying and those of us who don’t give a damn about PvP and just want to be good at PvE don’t have to suffer for their QQing. We bring DPS to the raid table. That’s it. Why should we NOT be around the top of the charts?
Arnoch ~ Malfurion
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Rogues are just fine. Don’t nerf their DPS. Seriously, it’s unfair for rogues. My main is a lock, and personally, I think mages should have their damage nerfed. Mages that are equally geared as I am do A LOT more damage than I do. Locks should definitely have their damage increased a little.
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I myself have to agree with the posts above about rogues. I first started with a rogue and then upon reaching lvl 55 decided to make a dk as many do lol. After gearing him out to tank i began working on my rogue once again and now that he is 80 and geared up for icc 10 and 25 man raids, pow right in the kisser there goes ur only reason to b invited to a raid yes im talking bout the dps nerf its exteamly stupid no reason at all for it i pull 6-7k on bosses and have many times been out dpsed by a ret. pally by 1-2k on bosses and there gear is not as good as mine so who is op? the pally for sure if it is a thing to make pvp more fair then oh well cry cry cry thats what everyone does when they get owned by a specific class no matter rogue or what. So leave us rogues alone cause all u do by lowering dps is keep us from raiding since pepole who get pawned by us in bg would still b pawned even with lower dps by us rogues simply cause they dont know how to play there class. LEAVE ROGUES ALONE ALL WE CAN DO IS DPS I MEAN DAMN!!!!
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Hello all,
But i don’t play pvp, and look at it from the perspective of raiding.
Firstly, i don’t think a nerve on a sheer dps class as rogue`s is justified. They should be able to top the meters, simply because that is precisely their job.. killing something fast
But i disagree from this perspective that Rogue`s “only” can dps, and i am surprised to see no rogue mentioned it.. but i love to bring rogue`s along for the interrupt ability`s as well. So,. they still play a important role, specialy on bossfights were bosses need to be interrupted, or trash mobs and add`s in boss fights.
Secondly, all the nerving and balance acts Blizzard plays last 2 years.. is because of the annoying pvp whine anyway. PvP in wow will nvr be balanced,.. period! after having played for over 9 years very competitive FPS multiplayer games, i can tell you right now,.. the only way you will ever balance out pvp.. is to make ALL roles automatic by entering a BG equally geared. in other words..every ones is equally capped / nerved / armored health pooled mana pooled ectra… i know this probably isn’t possible for wow,. not to mention the pvp flame it will bring upon me now
.. but think of it.. if all players are equall in their strenghts.. like a game as quake for example, were all competitors have all the same ability`s and limitations,.. then it will be down to sheer skills and reaction.. and not about if a class is Op or nerved.
anyways i hope the nerve wont happen,.. and support the rogue community in this one.. even i dont play one my self.
goodluck you stealthy killers
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And i know that blizzard doesnt give a damn about any 1 person because they are money hungry pricks, which is fine. but i hope they read this anyway and realize they are pissing off the people that pay for their houses, cars, their kids braces, and their big comfy beds they sleep in at night…not that they care…but oh well.
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This is ridiculous. 1st off, rogues are the ONLY melee dps class that have no other roles they can fill. DKs have the option to tank along with warriors, and feral druids and ret pallies can heal AND tank. DPS is the ONLY thing we have going for us. why is it so wrong we have high dps? the only fights we do alot on are fights where we arent moving…any other fight ranged dps, especially hunters, bury us alive. On a dps race boss like festergut, yes, we are top dps…but why is that bad? our ONLY role is to damage the boss. we cant spellsteal buffs that give us 100% damage increases like mages, we dont have any kind of buff to give the raid, we HAVE to dps no matter what because its the only role we can fill. Nerfing rogues is the stupidest thing blizz can do, and if they nerf us again they can kiss my 15 bucks a month goodbye.
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I think blizz should gief the retri pala his seal of blood back to make a the dps lose of the rogue’s ^^
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Hey all,
Nobody likes to be nerfed. We all love our classes and get very pissed off when they suddenly underperform becasue Blizz’s think tank decided they need to nerf a certain class. However, I do think the dps nerf on rogues is more than justified. They do pull out a lot more dps than other pure dps classes in game. My main is a DK tank and I get to see the dps rogues all the time. It is systematically a big chunk above other melee dps classes (yes even DKs). Moreover, I also see rogues edging over mages, hunters and locks all the time in most types of encounter. They do loads of personal dps, and if specced appropriately, huge AoE dps as well.
However, I do hope Blizz takes comments like ours in mind, in that I agree rogues should be given other roles to play other than just dpsing, if only to make rogue play a lot more interesting. I think expanding the utility of a rogue in a raid would make it a lot more interesting. For example expanding the use of sap, or giving rogues (or expanding) the choice of spell interrupts for instance). The other “pure” dps classes have all of these options (e.g. Mage’s with spell steal or hunter’s with silencing shot etc.). Also, although perhaps an unrealistic wish on my part, why not make rogues viable tanks? Tanks who focus more on damage avoidance than damage mitigation? (this is ofc wishful thinking with Blizz nerfing avoidance)
Finally on the argument that hybrid classes (e.g. DKs) should not pull more dps than “pure” dps classes. This would be a fair point if you had pure tank or healer classes that out-tanked/out-healed hybird healer/tank classes. This is obviously not a feasible option, as Palas for instance have to be able to dps, tank and heal due to lore contraints etc. As a DK tank I could argue that I should be able to out-tank a bear tank, since druids can dps (as casters and melee!!), heal and tank! Which would be silly of me. The whole point is moot anyway since equally geared pure dps classes do out-dps hybrid classes, and yes, even DKs get outdpsed. For the same fights my MM hunter, with inferior gear, outdpses my very well geared DK dps main.
The bottom line is that rogues, regardless of how veemently you may deny this, outdps other “pure” dps classes, and therefore their nerf is justified in my view. I reiterate my wish though, one that is undoubtedly shared by others, that rogues’ options in raiding are expanded.
Cheers,
Raz
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After 2.5 years as a rogue, I’ve finally started hating it… I’m pretty useless as a healer or a tank, and dps isn’t anything special in PVE. Not even any locked chests in instances anymore…
give me something to work with.
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Why are they hating on rogues so much. We have only 1 job in any raid, and that is straight up dps. We bring nothing to the table other than that. Oh ya tricks or the trade, woopty doo. Its not a self buff and unless you have another rogue out there buffing you with it, it does not help us. Take away a large amount of the penalty you give us to duel-wield. Now thats a GREAT idea. It shouldnt be about making fair and even in raids. Each class and race has a job to do in a raid, mixing and matching, finding the right fit is part of the game.
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Well i’am gonna be honest. Nerfing rogues is pure bull****, i’am agreeing with everyone saying that! Now that we can finnaly put out some damage to leave those paladins in icc behind the meters since when they go up against undead there’s no holding them…
Anyway the thing i’am mostly pissed about it the hunger for blood nerf… it used to be 15% increased damage (18 if glyped) now they put it to 5% (8 if glyped). Yes last patch they changed the murder talent so it gives a constant 4% increased damage, but we are hitting here with daggers. Anyway if they are gonna keep nerfing that hunger for blood talent they can just remove it for some other talent.
P.S: Sorry about the spelling and grammar, i make mistakes when i’am pissed.
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Its R.O.G.U.E, if your spelling it rouge thats make-up and we dont have any in game rouge btw.
And for all you rogues out there inc. Myself i think they should keep the rogue just like it is, its not like we can do multi-ablities like other classes we are straight up dps, thats it. period.
People hate on the rogues cuz they dont know how to gear against one. We dont have buffs, we dont heal, we are sneaky bitches who do exatly what sneaky bitches do, we walk up behind you and stomp you if your not geared properly.
I also have a priest who is btw a gear god in pvp and can wipe a rogue out in no time. Just learn how to gear and we wont have all these complainers who are just unaware how to search the internet or ask someone.
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I don’t have a rouge alt. I do have a mage, dk and hunter that are all well geared. I was glad to see rouge damage increase. I thought it was about time. All pure dps classes should clearly out dps the hybird classes. Mages, hunters, rouges and locks should be the ones topping the dps meters, but instead I see my hybird dk actualy out dps’ing all those classes most of the time. Honestly, locks are the ones who seriously need a dps boost – leave rouges alone. Were glad to have a melee class in icc that can put out as much damage as a ranged class. I’m so tired of wow nerfing pve performance to make pvp fair. You want to make pvp fair? create armour specific to pvp that will downright own anyone walking in with pve gear. You can do all your nerfing/boosting there. Right now pve gear sucks so hard core that i arena in pve gear.
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This. Is. Stupid. My rogue has some awesome gear, and hunters and kitty druids can keep up with my dps on most fights unless we’re standing still, like saurfang/festergut. most of the time they can out dps me. deathwhisper? running around chasing adds? by the time i get to the adds, the hunters have done popped off 15k dmg and i my rotations shot and i get to start it all over. kittys can pounce. zomg we can sprint. once every 3 mins. im starting to think we’re so op we should be taken out of the game completely, and our skills be split up between pallys druids and hunters.
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Have to add another thing while I’m at it…vanish seems like a GREAT thing and an ability that makes the rogues OP. Well no..as more and more classes have dots and stuff that break stealth easy, rogues only got one thing that makes them safely enter vanish, to get back into the game.
To vanish with a dot on you, you have to use cloak of shadows. Cloak of shadows are also used agains spellcasters while unstealthed…to not die as easely. If you happen to get dot’ed after that 5 sec duration, you’re unable to vanish again, cus the dot just break your stealth.
Make preparation refresh the cd on cloak of shadows aswell.
For those of you who’s not playing a rogue it might seem unfair, but it really isn’t.
In arena all cd’s are refreshed when you enter, which is one thing. But in battlegrounds, it’s not easy lasting long, when you just had to pop two or three cooldowns to survive and to beat that insane pala, priest or mage that was about to kill you.
They can just continue to shield themselves, kite and heal up, while the rogue now has everything on cooldown and have nothing to show for compared to it’s opponent.
Just my humble opinion..
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I have to agree with Shadospawn aswell.
Nerfing the rogues is just silly. They have nothing but disarm traps and giving pure dps. I think it’s fair that rogues give more damage than others, as they have no way of filling multiple roles, they have no raidbuff or any raidbeneficial abilities. Rogues are also one of two or three classes that wont be invited more than one of (maybe two rogues in a 25man raid, as other classes can have 3-5 spots in 25man…making it more difficult to be chosen…ergo damage output is an argument).
Another thing…
The rogues were announced to finally have a raidbuff when ToT came…it’s just a damage boost and a way to lower the threat. Great ability, but not adding anything to the raid. It’s not a raidbuff…this should be looked into aswell as it seems you (Blizz) don’t remember that you also implement a 20-30% increased effiency on resilience…meaning that nerfing the rogue, means it’s impossible for us to take anyone with a decent amount of resilience down.
And since rogues are leather users it’s not like they can withstand that much attack before they’re laying cold on the ground.
I think you really should reconsider these changes…
And while you reconsider..please reconsider lowering the cd on preparation. I mean EIGHT minutes??? Ok I know there’s many of you players out there hating rogues, cus you’re dead before you can engage. But let me tell you something. That has nothing to do with rogues. It’s you who are not yet used to fighting a rogue. For those who are used to it, they know it’s as easy for them as it is for us. In BG’s priest and mages tear things appart. Retri palas and arms warr with healing in their back blasts everything.
Rogues are designed to be in stealht and with 1:30 cd on vanish and 8 mins cd on preparations it’s like we only got enough for one/two fights until we have to sneak around for some minutes, waiting for cd’s.
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Sure Nerf us rogues, aside from disarming traps we have no other use then straight dps! Nerf us to hell. Its not like were mages or hunters and have CC, or ret pallys who can off heal or off tank. Or kitty druids that can pump out 10k in 5 seconds then go back to bear form. Or better yet were not warriors, who get ANOTHER legendary even though they’ve been able to use every one except Atiesh, and then they get to dual wield it! Bloody brilliant logic!
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lol. They want to nerf straight DPS classes even though the Ret DPS tier10 set bonus is retardedly OP. Sit around and watch the pallys pull 10k without efford even though they get a headache from banging their head against the keyboard. But nerf straight DPS at what they do best, Makes no sense.
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Wait! What? Protection warriors have too much utility and damage for pvp, but you don’t want to hurt their abilities in pve? Maybe this thinking shoulda been forethought before you snugged pallys in pve with your attempts to nerf pvp??????
Hot debate. What do you think?
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Actually scratch the above. A better fix would be more ways to earn Ashen verdict rep for those of us that eitehr aren’t able to raid or have alts not up there yet.
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anotehr plessant fix would be more ways to get frost Emblems for that T10 gear, or better yet reducing the cost of the T10 pieces to 30 and 50 like the T9 is. Perhaps just wishful thinking.
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